Difference between revisions of "Expo 2008/Drills"

Latest revision as of 09:24, 29 May 2008

Current Club Drills (Bosch)

Location Currently the four old Bosch drills and two batteries are at my house (Frank) in Bristol, Generally so as they can be tested and generally fettled.

Drills The newest two drills have been tested with teh Alubox batteries and appear ok (44 & 52 holes) For teh first 2 mins one of the drills that took too much current but this settled dowm and then worked ok I'm asuming this was the grease in the hammer bit sorting itself out. Interestingly if the drill is run backwards it takes loads of current and flattens the battery really quick. (Dosent drill quick either as drill sparol forces teh dust back into the hole.)

Testing to continue... --Frank 12:21, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Batteries Last year I made three new batteries for the drills using NiCad’s. Only two survive now... These are OK, mainly because they have not been used a lot. I also have a fair number of NiCad ‘D’ 4Ah cells they were free, I was going to fettle two packs of these to see how they last. (They’re not designed for power applications so I suspect will not live long)

The batteries I have will be fettled with the drills.

We probably do not need additional battery packs for the old Bosch drills, especially as we have two new reliable Makita drills.

Battery chargers base camp We have two mains chargers for base camp . One is an old Bosch charger, the other is a trickel charger.

Battery chargers top camp Last year after the demise of first battery I used my lamp trickel charger to regulate the battery charging current, This works but uses two solar panels in series to get the 24V. It is therefore not much use in the dark. (It means I can charge my lamp batteries overnight then)

• A Bosch battery charger is being dicussed between Edvin, Wookey and Frank, we're awainting results from sponsorship requests --Frank 12:21, 27 May 2008 (BST)

New Drills

Makita are very kindly giving us 2 new BHR180 rotary hammer drills - these arrived on 15th May. These use 18V battery packs:

Modifications

• Do we want to mod them so battery packs aren't attached to the drill but can stay in a tacklesack?
  • As the drills use lightweight Li-Ion packs, there may be little advantage in shifting the battery packs from the drill to a tacklesack. Apparently the drill+battery weighs 3kg, compared with around 4kg for a Bosch GBH24VRE. Duncan.collis 14:06, 9 May 2008 (BST)
  • Looking at a picture of these drills, it appears that most of the weight of the machine is out in front, with the battery pack directly below the handle. The battery in this position may provide some balance to the drill, preventing it from being too front-heavy. Duncan.collis 14:06, 9 May 2008 (BST)

Tackle sacs for the new drills

• We need to make some padded tacklesacks for transporting them underground.
  • The main purpose of padding is to protect the dry bag the drill is in. First choose good tacklesacks that don't have holes in them! Use some old karrimat, foam floor tiles or knackered wetsuit to make the packing. Pad both inside and outside the drybag. Duncan.collis 14:06, 9 May 2008 (BST)

Charging of the new drills

• Do the two new drills come with two mains chargers?
  • Yes - each drill came with a mains charger Edvin

The new Drill batteries cannot be charged with the Bosch drill chargers. LiIon cells can be harder to charge than NiMH, they are 'much' less tollerant of overcharging. --Frank 20:22, 12 May 2008 (BST)

• Someone needs to contact Makita to see if they make a car charger for their 18V LiIon cells. They do make a car charger for NiMH/NiCad (DC1822) This will not work.
  • Probably best if the same contact is used as with the sponsorship. It would definatly be worth 'buying' a car charger. --Frank 20:22, 12 May 2008 (BST)
  • I have been informed Makita do not make a car (12V) charger for this battery yet.
• The next best option is to use a mains charger with the inverter at top camp. See section on Bivi fettling for dicussion on use of the inverter at top camp.
  • Investigations are on going by Edvin, Wookey and Frank, into getting a rc car/plane battery Lion charger to charge at top camp. Currently we are awainting replys from sponsorship requests. --Frank 12:35, 27 May 2008 (BST)

• Charging: am I right in thinking solar panels at top camp can only charge 12V or 24V? We can either try to make a transforer, bring a mains adaptor up, or take battery packs down to basecamp for charging. Thoughts?
  • If you're using the manufacturer's Li-Ion packs, it goes without saying that you shouldn't try charging them on a home-made charger unless it was designed for the purpose by someone who knew what they were doing. Duncan.collis 14:06, 9 May 2008 (BST)

Aditional batteries

• Spare batteries will be very useful, how many batteries are supplied with teh drills?
• Can we make spare battery packs using some cells from gp batteries?
  • It is probably not a good idea to modify the existing drills/batteries this year, we want to run them as is for as long as possible. --Frank 20:22, 12 May 2008 (BST)
  • The batteries should be as far as possible be of the same technology as the drill batteries. Because in the future confusion will cause the chargers to be mixed up and problems will occur. --Frank 20:22, 12 May 2008 (BST)
  • Each drill came with two 3.0Ah battery packs so we probably don't need any more?Edvin
  • Looking at Wikipedia LiFe and LiPol batteries are primerially affected by age and less so by the number of discharges than other battery technologies, so buy new batteries when the cells start gettting old n tired. --Frank 12:35, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Drill Bits

Do we need some new drill bits? Basically

• Hilti HKDS 10mm diameter drill, shorter the better
• Spitts 12mm Drill, Try not to drill for them, it can be dangerous
• Petzl Longlife 12mm drill at least 50mm of spiral bit
• Studs 8mm drill, Don't expect many people to use them.

Potential Cock-up It would be very frustrating for a pushing team to get to their lead, unpack the drill, put a couple of holes in and then find that they'd got the wrong size of drill bit. Consider dipping any 8mm or 12mm bits in paint (but not the chuck fittings, or they won't go into the drill) so that it's super obvious that they're different, and tell people that it's so. Duncan Collis 10:24, 29 May 2008 (BST)

HKDS Hilti HKDS bolts have a female M8 hole to accept the hangers.

• These must be are drilled for using a hammer drill
• The hole required is 10mm dia hole 35-40mm deep.
• It is acceptable to drill the hole deeper than necessary however this uses additional battery power and if the first blows when setting the HKDS are too heavy, can result in the HKDS being punched to the back of the hole.
• The best drills for drilling these holes are the Hilti 10mm dia 110mm long drills.

Spitt The Spit anchor (Petzl P12 Cheville Autoforeuse self-drilling anchors)

• These are made by Spitt among other manufactures
• These are self drilling anchors where the hole is made by hitting the driver and an attached Spitt with a hammer. When the hole is the correct depth a cone wedge is inserted and the whole assembly whacked until its set correctly.
• To save time these can be partially drilled for using a hammer drill. The hole drilled must be shorter than the Spitt, otherwise the anchor can be compromised when it is set. This is therefore not recommended.
• The drill required is a 12mm dia drill
• Note there are different manufactures of the generic Spitt bolt and the designs differ slightly, especially in the cone wedge profile. It is therefore very important that different manufactures spits and cone wedges are not mixed up.
• This should not be a problem for CUCC this year as all the spits were supposedly used up. If any old ones do turn up in the tackle store etc will someone responsible put them in there personal kit an make sure they don’t get mixed up.

Petzl Longlife These are all stainless anchors that need a hole to be drilled. They are set by whacking the captive pin with a hammer.

• The hole needs to 12mm dia and at least 47 deep
• These anchors are expensive however The club has six which will be used only for in-situ up pitches eg. Staircase 36 in KH.
• The main advantage is they are all stainless and therefore will not corrode and damage a rope if the rope is left in situ.
• For obvious reasons they must be used with a stainless Maillion, not a standard galvanised or an aluminium one.

Studs Studs are an anchor where when set a male M8 thread protrudes from the rock. A standard hanger without a bolt is used to attach a Maillion. This anchor needs a hole to be drilled.

• These anchors are usually carried for use in 'bad ground' where the rigger feels that a standard HKDS would be insufficient... Basically think very hard about not using them and finding some better rock even if the get-off will be a twat. The advantage is they are longer so the stressed part of the rock is significantly deeper.
  • An alternative solution is to use multiple HKDS anchors (suitably spaced out, of course) and sharing the load between them. Duncan Collis 10:24, 29 May 2008 (BST)
• The hole required is 8mm dia by 60 deep.
  • If they're only 60mm, probably not that much advantage over an HKDS anchor; the fact that the HKDS anchors are shorter is offset slightly by their larger diameter. Duncan Collis 10:24, 29 May 2008 (BST)
• An 8mm drill is required. No other anchor requires an 8mm drill.
• They are set by bashing in till they stop and then tightening up, they therefore must be bashed in 5-10mm further than where the thread starts, otherwise they're dangerous and its not obvious.
  • Better instructions Duncan Collis 10:24, 29 May 2008 (BST):
    • overdrill the hole slightly (the back of the hole is not used in setting the bolt)
    • start with the hanger plate threaded onto the bolt
    • spin the nut until it's almost level with the end of the bolt (but not quite - you want to hammer the end of the bolt without striking the nut and ruining the thread)
    • hammer in until the nut pushes the hanger plate against the wall
    • tighten
• There are a few at top camp and an 8mm drill, (for those that care, and really I’m past)--Frank 19:52, 28 May 2008 (BST)
• Another disadvantage is that when rigging-in on a route bolted on a previous expo, if you unexpectedly find that studs have been used you have to remove the bolts from your hanger plates so the hangers can go onto the studs. If the nuts were dropped by the derigger you're screwed, unless you happen to have brought some spares along. This is less of a problem if you make sure that bolt types are recorded on all rigging diagrams so that you can go suitably equipped. Duncan Collis 10:24, 29 May 2008 (BST)